• LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    14
    ·
    6 months ago

    Yeah and Russia protested strongly every time. But Ukraine was their red line. Just because you didn’t read it in western media doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    I don’t condone the invasion but it was predictable and a colossal “failure” of diplomacy if you look at it charitably. At worst it was a long term plan to force Russia into a conflict with the aid of western media to obscure the reason why this war was happening. Russia is acting just like the US would.

    • Skua@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      6 months ago

      So invading Ukraine fixes what for Russia, exactly? The fastest way to make more of Russia’s neighbours join NATO is to show them that they’re safer in NATO. Like Finland.

      Ukrainians mostly weren’t interested in joining NATO until Russia took Crimea. Russia pushed Ukraine towards NATO.

      • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        6 months ago

        “Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008. Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych”. Then the Euromaiden protests happened. Then Crimea etc.

        It’s pretty safe to assume that both Russia and the US meddled in the respective election through NGOs and whatnot. My point is that these are geopolitical games which both sides play and which should be reported as such. Then we’d have a chance to protest for peace negotiations. But as is there is an overwhelming amount of pro-war sentiment.

        • Skua@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          Public support for joining NATO among polled Ukrainians was very clearly the minority up until Russia invaded.

          But as is there is an overwhelming amount of pro-war sentiment.

          There’s an overwhelming amount of anti-invasion sentiment. People that support arming Ukraine support Ukraine’s right to not have chunks carved out of it just because its neighbour has a bigger army.

        • Vilian@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          they couldn’t join NATO because of crimea, explain what they really want

    • rdri@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      6 months ago

      plan to force Russia into a conflict

      Please explain how exactly do you force someone (who suggests to be reasonable) into conflict, basically force them to invade anyone.

      Did the Poland “forced” Hitler to start the WW2 the same way?

      • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        Please explain how exactly do you force someone (who suggests to be reasonable) into conflict, basically force them to invade anyone.

        Well imagine if China were to make a military pact with Mexico and started delivering “defensive” weapon systems to them. There would be protests, sanctions, meddling and attempts for regime change, and if those didn’t work there would be invasion.

        For the US to invade another country it actually takes far less. Getting bombed is super easy.

        • rdri@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          6 months ago

          Imagine justifying real war by imagining things.

          For the US to invade another country it actually takes far less. Getting bombed is super easy.

          These sentences don’t make sense as the response for the quotation.

          • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            6 months ago

            Do you live in some alternative reality where the US didn’t invade Irak and Afghanistan? And is bombing countries all over the world for whatever reason? Oh let me guess that is TOTALLY different!

      • trebuchet@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        6 months ago

        It’s hardly unprecedented. The USA felt forced into an aggressive response to the Soviets putting missiles in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

        • rdri@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          So it was Soviet plan to start the aggression? Is it the same with Finland? When can we expect Putin to invade it?

            • rdri@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              6 months ago

              Read the message you were replying to. I asked specifically how do you force a country to invade a other country (that is not yours). You told about Cuba, so naturally I wanted to confirm if you mean the situation was caused by desire of Soviets to start the aggression.