This is really bad even just from the perspective of user behavior. Training people to scan QR codes from anything that looks like a captcha box is HORRIBLE for security.
“Thanks for scanning the code, just one more step! Please input your phone number, and type in the code you receive.”
Boom, account stolen.
If google requires me to permit other companies to leech all my personal data to be able to use anything on the Internet at all, I say we label Google, Microsoft, Apple as criminal organizations
I’m sorry, bit there have to be limits.
I. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. USE. ANYTHING. GOOGLE.
OR APPLE. OR MICROSOFT.
FUCK ALL THESE OLIGARCH COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND
I do not want my private data leeches and sold every day, I don’t even get paid for it
When my current iPhone dies, I’m never having a smartphone ever again.
What do you plan to do? Dumbphone? No phone? Break glass in case of emergency phone in a faraday pouch?
I’m considering a break-glass dumbphone in a faraday pouch. I REALLY fucking hate location tracking. I’d keep it seperate from my IRL ID. Prob is, it’s hard. Screw up once, big data pounces. One call tied to your name in any way. One friend puts it in their contacts. One time to forget the pouch and there’s a location ping at your residence. Not to mention the difficulty of even buying it and setting up a plan. Ugh :(
I’m a teams app for dumb phones away from getting off smart phones. I’m fiddy and have to use my readers to even see my phone, so I’ve slowly stopped using it for much outside of random apps for appliances. I can get an ipad for that, though. I’m also a privacy advocate, but I’ve made peace with the fact that ship has pretty much sailed
Eventually privacy minded people like us will have to start creating and visiting sites on the dark web.
Sheesh, using alternative sites instead of Facebook and Reddit isn’t using the dark web.
if they add this requirement for the “I’m not a robot” technology this affects way more than stupid Facebook, reddit and the likes, most things behind anti DDoS use this shit.
I find this very dystopian, and there are not many “oh I’ll just visit the sites than don’t have it” alternatives. You might as well just open IRC and be done with it, I tend to visit a bit more of the internet (even if I haven’t visited Facebook, Instagram and the likes in years)
Ayup absolutely. Those co’s have such weight. They can drive this into essential services. Banks. Gov services. All online stores. Heck even sites that don’t need logins.
It’s short sighted to say “I’ll just use other sites then”. The end of that road is, we get excluded from modern life.
You’re so right, it’s dystopian.
We seriously need to ask Valve to make SteamOS phones.
Not only will they be good for gaming but imagine being able to put other OS’es on it like PC’s. Bazzite, PostmarketOS, etc. Plus Valve will still get revenue from people using the upcoming Steam ARM Game Store, and the current Bannerhub/Gamenative community android apps that enable playing PC games they own from Steam/GOG on Phones
Its such a huge opportunity that we all should be encouraging then to pursue now and after they release their current 3 big projects: Steam Controllers, Steam Machines, Steam Frames
Let’s give the billionaire more capitalism. Yea that’s it. He needs more.
I get where you are coming from. Out of all of the billionaires he is one that is one of the least bad out of the rest of them, and is doing plenty of good things himself. He got that wealth from Steam doing so well over the years co.pared to other billionaires that did the shadiest things imaginable
I don’t agree with his yachts business yet I agree with his side project of making boats specifically for ocean research. I don’t agree with him still getting paid so much today, yet I agree that he pays and treats his employees and customers well
End of the day it’s another option to get open phones that can have bootloader unlocked to change OS, and not be locked down. It is good to have more options currently where there are few.
Many online PC gamers have this opinion too so overall its more so a matter of time and comes down to if Valve really wants to then they will.
Yeah he’s the kind of wealth that helps you realize why people ever supported the wealthy. They used to actually have an understanding that keeping their wealth meant keeping employees, customers, and people at large happy and safe – and they’d be willing to put in the effort (or rather, money) to ensure it.
Let’s hope the EU prevents this from happening. We should be able to access every site we wish without Google’s permission.
The EU is busily building the Fourth Reich, so don’t expect help from there.
LOL, whatever you’re taking, stop, it’s doing your brain in! :D
I see you have no clue. You will learn, eventually.
Go ahead, teach me.
The ongoing battle against online privacy is a symptom of capitalism, the EU is a capitalist state. The only thing the EU would ever do against US-based capitalism is to gobble up those capital gains for themselves. It doesn’t matter if it happes or not, the privacy-issues for end-users would never be alleviated by the EU.
From what you’re saying, they would’ve already introduced all those capitalist methods of control the first time around.
Which they didn’t.
What gives?
Also: the EU is literally incapable of “gobbling up capital gains for themselves” because “themselves” doesn’t exist in this context - the EU is not a “State”. The member-states might (and some do).
Smartphones are such an utter wretch nowadays, & I’m not even sure if there was a time they weren’t. I don’t get the appeal of a smartphone, they do everything a dumbphone does but worse, more expensive & with an unremovable thick layer of scum, yeah a smartphone has some of the features of a laptop or desktop but who needs that baked into their phone for every moment?
People are trying so hard to fix smartphones (even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones) when they can get a dumbphone and be rid of those problems in the first place. Well that’s my opinion at least, I think it might be a bit extreme.
but who needs that baked into their phone for every moment?
Approximately 5.78 billion people.
Need to break up these monopolies. Really the root of all bad about capitalism.
The “root of bad” is capitalism itself, the logic of the system tends to create monopolies over time, as demonstrated in the game ‘Monopoly’
Capitalism is fine small scale, most systems are. Humans are just wired for efficiency and so with every player on the same board the most ruthless player wins.
Ah yes, the mythical small business capitalism we all hear about. I will agree it sounds good on paper and also seems to distribute money in a somewhat efficient manner.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
I think there is a worthwhile debate here around systems and culture. Perhaps capitalism could work if people were not inherently so greedy. I tend to believe that culture is the deciding factor which is a little disheartening honestly.
It’s not just culture. Most people value community and the well-being of others above amassing wealth (provided their needs are met). The problem is that capitalism indoctrinates us against those values, and even more that it rewards and empowers those who don’t share them at all.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
the primary “authoritarian” government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that’s why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.
I sure hope you are not talking about China as they have produced more billionaires than the US for the last two years dramatically increasing their income gap. If you think they have capitalism in check I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
you’re not wrong – china’s billionaire count is up. but here’s the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov’t already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.
that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it’ll happen again and again. china’s churn is fast, but the pattern’s the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.
It’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil, according to Jesus, but yeah, that’s the driving force behind capitalism.
It’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil
Thank you for getting this quote right. Often, it’s shortened to “money is the root of all evil”, which hits different, and removes the element of personal responsibility. The “love of money” bit is important.
well, I guess i will stop using those websites from my /e/os fairphone
What they are doing is way worse tban what you understood.
These QR codes will show on your Desktop PC and you will need an Android phone or an iOS device with a logged in Google QR code app to get past it.
so they are not only tracking you, but they are trying to reconnect your records across multiple devices.
Ayup that has been the holy grail of big tech.
They are most of the way there today. Make Identity Resolution inescapable. Bing bang boom.
It is more than just phones and lappys too. It’s everything. That smart TV. That fitness watch. That automobile. That streaming music service. The ebook reader you got as a birthday gift.
Your behavior across every single device is data gold. This is today’s reality.
Yep, data gold to sell to data brokers and investors so they can sell you shit that you don’t need and can’t even afford.
I wouldn’t scan shit from a website. Random QR codes are a security risk. Just won’t visit that website.
That’s why you have to use the special google app that will protect you from all these dangers*
*and also collect all your data, sell it to advertisers and forward it to US surveillance agencies (for your own protection of course).
Sad thing is, that argument works against so many ppl. “I can trust this app. It’s from Google!”
We(*) are tearing down personal computing. Brick by brick. The very idea of controling our own devs is getting lost. Replacing with Big Tech Feudalism.
(*) Not most of us here. But in the whole pop.
That would only make me install Graphene even harder if I wasn’t already writing from a phone with it
Hopefully this will push Linux Mobile development so that we are no longer completely bound to Android or iOS
i have one myself, and I can tell you that grapheneos won’t be affected by this. the real damage is to people using things like dumb phones or BSD, even windows computers are effectively locked out of the internet.
Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They’re convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google’s Play Integrity API and Apple’s App Attest API are very similar. Apple brought it to the web via Privacy Pass, which Google intends on doing too.
Google’s Play Integrity API requires hardware attestation for the strong integrity level and is gradually phasing in requiring it for the more commonly used device integrity level. Apple already has it as a requirement. Over the long term, this will increasingly lock out hardware and OS competition.
The purpose of these systems is disallowing people from using hardware and software not approved by Apple or Google. This is wrongly presented as being a security feature. Banks and government services are the main ones adopting it but Apple and Google are encouraging every service to use it.
Apple’s Privacy Pass brought hardware attestation to the web to help with passing captchas on their own hardware. Many people saw that as harmless since few sites would be willing to lock out non-Apple-hardware users. Apple and Google are both likely to bring broader hardware attestation to the web.
Google’s reCAPTCHA is planning an approach where they use Privacy Pass on Apple hardware, their own approach on Google Mobile Services Android devices and a QR code scanning system to require an iOS or Google certified Android device for Windows and other systems:
er/16609652
Banking and government services increasingly require using a mobile app where they can use attestation to force using an Apple or Google approved device and OS. Apple’s privacy pass, Google’s ‘cancelled’ Web Environment Integrity and now reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification are bringing this to the web.
Current media coverage for reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification misunderstands it and the impact of it. They’re bringing a hardware attestation requirement to Windows, desktop Linux, OpenBSD, etc. by requiring a QR scan from a certified smartphone to pass reCAPTCHA in some cases. They could expand it more.
Control over reCAPTCHA puts Google in a position where they can require having either iOS or a certified Android device to use an enormous amount of the web. Google defines certification requirements for Android which includes forcing bundling Google Chrome, etc. It’s enormously anti-competitive.
Google’s Play Integrity API bans using GrapheneOS despite it being far more secure than anything they permit. It also bans using any other alternative. This isn’t somehow specific to an AOSP-based OS. You can’t avoid this by using a mobile OS based on FreeBSD instead. You’ll just be more locked out.
Google’s Play Integrity API permits devices with no security patches for 10 years. The device integrity level can be bypassed via spoofing but they can detect it quite well and block it once it starts being done at scale. The strong integrity level requires leaked keys from TEEs/SEs to bypass it.
It doesn’t provide a useful security feature, but it does lock out competition very well. Services requiring Apple App Attest or Google Play Integrity are primarily helping to lock in Apple and Google having a duopoly for mobile devices. Play Integrity is more relevant due to AOSP being open source.
Governments are increasingly mandating using Apple’s App Attest and Google’s Play Integrity for not only their own services but also commercial services. The EU is leading the charge of making these requirements for digital payments, ID, age verification, etc. Many EU government apps require them.
Instead of governments stopping Apple and Google from engaging in egregiously anti-competitive behavior, they’re directly participating in locking out competition via their own services. Requiring people to have an Apple device or Google-certified Android device is anti-competition, not security.
reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification will currently work with sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS but it clearly exists to provide a way for them to start using hardware attestation on systems without it. People without an iOS or Android device will be locked out when this is required even without that.
This isn’t about security or any missing functionality. GrapheneOS can be verified via hardware attestation. Google bans using GrapheneOS for Play Integrity because we don’t license Google Mobile Services and conform to anti-competitive rules already found to be illegal in South Korea and elsewhere.
Services shouldn’t ban people from using arbitrary hardware and operating systems in the first place. Google’s security excuse is clearly bogus when they permit devices with no patches for 10 years but not a much more secure OS. It’s for enforcing their monopolies via GMS licensing, that’s all.
