I am not in a great place right now in terms of productivity and flourishing in my personal and professional life, and every time I waste a day, every time I do something that I enjoy at the moment but which is not productive, I feel ashamed.
I live in a country, where students sometimes end their own lives for not being able to get into their dream college or for not passing the exam that would have allowed them a job in the government bureaucracy, I have always thought that they were not ending their lives because they didn’t pass the exams, but they are ending it because they have indulged in activities which are not conducive to their goal of passing the exam so many times that they have given up on themselves and every time they spend a lot of time doing stuff which they might like to do in the moment but would regret right after they do it, their respect for self decreases a little more and when they get the sad news that could not progress towards their goals, they have not only failed as an aspirant for an exam, they have also failed as a person (for now at least)
i.e., As Dostoevsky states in C&P, “Your worst sin is that you’ve destroyed and betrayed yourself for nothing”, even though I might indulge in activities that are pleasurable for me now, they add up to nothing and if I do this enough times, I will just give up and sometimes some people will give up on all not just their goals because they hate themselves so much!
I don’t want to end up like them (even though I feel pity for them, too bad there isn’t an afterlife for them where they can be happy) , so I thought I would whip myself into a frenzy by reading a complication of suicide notes, this is for me an interesting task, but it also serves a purpose of warning me into things that I should not do! And to be completely honest, if I can derive some utility/meaning out of suicide notes, I mean the exact things that advertise the meaninglessness and the ugly side of life, that’s pretty inspirational to me, I mean, it’s like a metaphor for life, trying to life despite all the ugly stuff. So, to come back to the question,
Has there ever been a compilation of suicide notes, if so, where can one get it? And is it a good idea to get it?
PS: Sorry if this comes out the wrong way, if you haven’t noticed, I am not that articulate. Also, I am alright right now, I am good, but I don’t want to end up in a real bad situation, so I am looking for what I should I avoid.
edit 2: I like this community, but I don’t have enough time to respond to everyone, but know that I am grateful and know that I have heard you! :)
Such a compilation is unlikely to be published. There’s a phenomenon known as the Werther effect, in that as soon as suicide is mentioned in the news or popular culture, the suicide rate goes up (presumably as the awareness of it tips those who have been on the verge). As such, news publications have guidelines to avoid mentioning suicide as a motivation (often, the only tell will be a footnote at the bottom of a story giving the phone number of a suicide hotline). If such a compilation came out, it could be expected to trigger a wave of suicides, if not a small but noticeable permanent increase in the frequency of suicide, so I imagine few publishers ok r booksellers would touch it.
Today I learned…
I don’t think it’s only that people fail their goals. Society is structured for a specific type of person. If you aren’t that person you’re just left to drift while life moves on without you. For me personally it’s that I’ve lived my life around people that don’t let others live and be their best self out of tradition. I’m pretty confident when it comes to getting things done, but there’s no point when you’re shit on for existing and manipulated because your aren’t like the other traditional people. Id rather KMS then fake who I am for money or manipulate another person for business. I’m still trying to find a path. But it’s hard when you don’t have a safety net of money or socially. Sometimes you have to leave everything behind and only keep the necessities to see what really makes life beautiful.
“Will power” is not a thing. All people are not the same. The “American dream” really is not accessable to everyone how it’s traditionally laid out. Some people are lucky that that lifestyle fit their make up. Others a doomed to suffer if they try to keep up with that lifestyle? And if different for everyone. You can’t raise every kid the same and most are unaware of how they can royally fuck a kids life up because they lack that understanding.
Willpower IS a thing and there is some really interesting research about how it is an exhaustible psychological “resource” we have! In other words, we can exercise our willpower up to a point, but it’s not infinite. Highly recommend reading “Switch” by Chip and Dan Health which goes into willpower as a concept if you are interested in this.
Thanks, I’ll check it out.
And I thought I was the cynic!
“Will power” is not a thing.
When Free Will is not a thing, “Will power” is a joke, but we have a very strong illusion of free will and I live my life like I have free will because “I feel like it” and there is more utility on this side of the aisle.
The “American dream” really is not accessable to everyone how it’s traditionally laid out.
I love America as an Indian, the First and the Second Amendments, the separation of church and state, the spirit of Innovation and Science, the rebel spirit, the history (except some things of c) and the whole shebang! Gimme, some of that, please!
I know the “American dream” isn’t really accessible if you’re really downtrodden, but it’s a hell of a deal from where I stand. A friend of mine had something witty to say about " the Indian dream", when I asked him about it, he said “The Indian dream is to live the American Dream” lol!
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Willpower is definitely a thing. It’s defined as:
- "The ability to delay gratification, resisting short-term temptations in order to meet long-term goals
- The capacity to override an unwanted thought, feeling, or impulse
- The ability to employ a “cool” cognitive system of behavior rather than a “hot” emotional system
- Conscious, effortful regulation of the self by the self
- A limited resource capable of being depleted"
It’s not universal thing was my point.
Try to spin this in a different direction. Someone once gave me a collection of nyt obituaries - all of the positive things that other people said about the lives of extraordinary people. That’s reading message of hope and love and sorrow - and probably a much better influence on you than notes that would probably be rooted in despair.
That’s pretty good!
I don’t know about the notes, but I wanted to say that it takes time and effort to unlearn this idea that we are supposed to be productive all the time. This is a lie that many powerful people want us to internalize so we work ourselves to death, and it’s very insidious and omnipresent. It’s become a perverse “value” in our society at large and something to be proud of.
But you are not a machine. You’re a person. And that means you need and deserve rest and comfort.
You have inherent worth outside of your productivity, how hard you work, or how much money you make.
Those metrics don’t tell us anything about how you are as a person, your values, your kindness, your strengths, the joy you bring others.
ALL of that stuff has value. Real true value. You have to start challenging these beliefs about your worthiness. Because you are already worthy.
Some further reading/resources:
- The Body Is Not An Apology
- Rest is Resistance
- Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle
This was really lovely to read. Thank you very much. It’s nice to hear something like this.
We ALL need to hear it! You’re so welcome. I try to keep reminders near me when hustle culture rears its head, and it always helps :)
Thank you for this comment and thanks for mentioning sources for further reading.
My pleasure. Let me know if there are other resources I can recommend!
even though i might indulge in activities that are pleasurable for me now, they add up to nothing
I know this isnt what you’re asking for, but I have to wholeheartedly disagree with this (unless you’re talking about drugs, wanking all day long, or something like that). Creating joy in your life isnt a bad thing and has long term benefits. It helps to overcome burnout and extreme fatigue, it gives you something to live for, it allows you a place to find what matters to you. It can help you be MORE productive tomorrow by letting yourself rest today.
Taking some time away from a problem, from studying, or from work lets your brain work through problems subconsciously that you can’t grasp consciously.
It’s like sleep. Sure, you can’t be productive during sleep, but you still need it to survive and to take on the next day stronger.
Enjoying yourself isn’t wasteful.
I understand, thanks for differentiating between the ugly stuff (drugs, wanking off…) and the stuff we need.
PS: I am talking mainly about getting rid of Phone addiction, netflix addiction and stuff like that, so these are net negatives if you overdo it and if you can’t control yourself, which I can’t do most times, they become really addictive.
It may sound tacky but the actual conventional way of getting out of this dark place is to just be outside, with people. Turn off your computer, put down your phone, stop isolating yourself and just go out sightseeing somewhere (ideally with a group of people).
If you’re in India you know the weather hasn’t been better, it’s the best time for a nice trek to Kodai or Ooty or Munnar or wherever.
There was an anthropologist who visited with some undeveloped village somewhere, and somehow while he was living with them, the concept of depression came up.
The man he was talking to said oh yes we know about that. Sometimes someone will get broken in this particular way, they want to stay inside all the time and they can’t get happy or feel emotion, they have very low energy, trouble with sleep, we know, we have that here too. It is evil spirits that get into the person, and so we worked out over time, what you need to do is get a whole bunch of the people who are close to that person, go over and haul them out of the house, and there’s a whole ritual. It’s like a big parade around the village, people have to touch them, throw arms around them, sing, we throw this type of powder on them, carry them around up on everyone’s shoulders up in the sunlight. You have to do it for many hours. But most of the time it works; they get broken out from that type of thing they are suffering from, and if then if they try to make an effort from that point it’s not hard for them to come back to a normal life and they are much happier. It is very important to do this ritual if you know someone who’s in that state, and if we find it out pretty much the whole village will make a day to get them out and rescue them from it, because it is a terrible affliction and usually they cannot fix themselves from it on their own.
The anthropologist was fascinated and talked about depression in Western societies a little bit, and the villager suddenly got animated. Yes! I know this. I never saw it but, in the cities some foreigners came in and tried that way. You sit in a little room and you talk to a total stranger about all the things that make you sad. And you repeat this for a short time each week. It is absolutely terrible. We had to kick them out of the country.
Beautiful read
there’s a whole ritual. It’s like a big parade around the village, people have to touch them, throw arms around them, sing, we throw this type of powder on them, carry them around up on everyone’s shoulders up in the sunlight. You have to do it for many hours. But most of the time it works
That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing this. I might not be able to fully invoke this ritual, but I will carry it in my heart, in case I can adapt parts of it for a friend who needs it.
I don’t think it would be a good idea to read those notes. These letters are written in a way to convince the reader that suicide is the only option and that seems to me a dangerous reading material for anyone who is not in a good place.
I guess this comment makes more sense now, you are right, it’s probably not useful to read these messages. But, a counterpoint could be people who are in a really bad situation and are in that space make bad decisions.
i.e., It depends very much on how the person perceives the situation. I have heard of 16-year-olds offing themselves because of something really stupid, so maybe if we read suicide notes which are so obviously wrong in their approach, maybe that will help people realize that even though you think there is no way, there probably is one.
Also, I am not sure how often this is true. I don’t want to shit on people who have offed themselves by suggesting there were all dumb or something, I am pretty sure they had legit reasons most of the times. idk!
Hey there, subject aside, I think you need to review what you truly think is important in your life. Based on this post you seem to feel a lot of pressure to succeed, but what success really means is up to you, not anyone else. I found the book “Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck” to be helpful on this subject; as for the title it’s not about not giving a fuck but choosing carefully what to give a fuck about. There’s some interesting stories on this exact subject in there, e.g. did you know that Dave Mustaine largely considers his majorly successful music career a failure because he was kicked out of a band before starting Megadeth? The band he was kicked out of was Metallica, so he compares himself to them and robs himself of any joy.
There also is more than one path to a goal. Even when you feel like you’ve “failed” it just means you have to find another way.
Personally, I’d find a compilation of such notes a bit morbid and quite sad. So much wasted potential because people felt that they couldn’t change, and we can all change if we want to. But it’s a genuinely interesting concept. Maybe others find them motivational the way you do!
Productivity is completely unrelated to success imo. The only thing that matters is that you’re happy with yourself and your life, maybe productivity is not what brings you joy?
even though i might indulge in activities that are pleasurable for me now, they add up to nothing
Those activities are just as valid as a productive activity, especially if they make you happier. Being productive is great, but I feel productive activities should never take precedence over non-productive ones simply because they’re productive. Do what you have to do, but never sacrifice your own happiness at the altar of forward progress.
Productivity is completely unrelated to success IMO.
I am sorry, but I feel like we’re getting stuck on words here. You know what I mean by success, don’t you?
At least for me it does, I have not achieved certain things I wanted because of lack of self-discipline and then lack of productivity. So it’s real to me. But if one accepts the puddle they are in (not judging), maybe then productivity won’t matter. i.e., You have to become a Jain or something (again, not judging, they probably will stay happier than me). edit: Your second point explains more, but productivity will make me happy, I know it. So, this discussion is rendered moot for me.
even though i might
This is embarrassing, I hate it when people don’t capitalize their ‘i’s :’)
Well I hope the goals you’re working towards are achieved and end up being fulfilling to you. Not religious personally but I think Jainism is a pretty apt comparison to how I feel about this, seriously, good luck!
This is embarrassing, I hate it when people don’t capitalize their ‘i’s :’)
i don’t! (although ‘dont’ does peeve me sometimes)
I don’t have an answer to your question, but suicide isn’t that simple.
Bad things can happen to people, and they would never consider suicide. Good things can happen to people, but they still commit suicide.
I don’t think people always know exactly why they’re suicidal. They might believe it’s because they didn’t get into the dream university or failing exams. It might be a triggering factor, but not the full story.
I don’t believe there’s a checklist of things to do and not to do. Why a person might end up in suicide is entirely personal.
+1.
You’ll get better stories from someone’s deathbed than from someone’s suicide note. At the end of their life what do they regret, what are they happy they did, what advice do they have to give.
I don’t expect suicide notes to be filled with “if only I studied harder, then I wouldn’t have to end it all”.
As someone who has been on the receiving end of multiple suicide notes, I do not advise this. Essentially, you’d be reading the notes of someone’s mind who decided to make a permanent solution to what really is a temporary phase/situation in their life. On top of that, no context behind the why and the trigger behind the decision (ie undiagnosed bipolar, and the words are coming out as someone who is experiencing a reeeeally bad episode).
There’s a lot to explore with what you expressed, and I totally get and can relate to shame and what some note as Shitty Life Syndrome (aka SLS); life sucks and you can’t get a break. If you wanna chat or just vent, I’m happy to lend my ears and even share my experience of dark days along with people in my life who have taken the suicide route (5 individuals total).
As for your request, I recently came across Campaign Against Living Miserable (CALM) and their YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/@thecalmzonenet) has tons of videos on those who have survived, and stories/videos of those who have not. You might find some solace there.
That’s my quick two cents. Feel free to reach out if you wanna chat more or if there’s anything you feel I can share, as this is an area I’ve had more life experience that I’d like, for better or worse.
I’ve read a couple thousand for work, there’s no utility or meaning to be gathered except some people have pretty shit lives and some people make very rash decisions (and accidentally chose high lethality methods).
I don’t think I’ve ever read one that was like “to my family, I am sorry but I was not productive every day and I wasted lots of time”
Why this comment didn’t get more upvotes is a mystery to me, can you please share more?
If you are comfortable with it, tell us what kind of work you are involved in and if you are not, please talk more about what else you learned.
i.e., If you didn’t find any “to my family, I am sorry but I was not productive every day and I wasted lots of time”, what did you find?
Also, any learnings you have had from those? God, I would read if you wrote a post about it! So, please do speak!
sounds like an interesting lemmy community. id subscribe
Thank you for taking the time to ask such a poignant question.
FWIW you mold your life with a “goal” in mind, and along the way improvise when shit comes at you.
I never thought i would ever, ever make it this far…but somehow i just did. Keep your head about you, dont worry about the others and find the person that completes you if you need to.
And spite. Never let go of the spite that makes you outlive the assholes.
And spite. Never let go of the spite that makes you outlive the assholes
Please explain that a lil more.
FWIW you mold your life with a “goal” in mind, and along the way improvise when shit comes at you.
You see, I had this goal for which I was ready to sacrifice a lot, but turns out I would almost certainly fail if I pursue it and even if I achieve that goal, it ain’t paying my bills! A lose-lose! After I realized that I gave up on it and along with it everything I knew about myself.
I don’t know what I am doing atm, I am just wandering around thinking, if I know enough maybe I will get to know what will make me happy and then I can pursue it. i.e., No use sitting at home thinking about it and having an existential crisis.
Outlive your enemies is as simple as that. You will encounter many villainous people who may or may not have influence over your life at some point, the intention of the quoted saying is that you “win” over those dickheads by living as good a life as you can.
A simplified example: one Manager I had fired me, but now I am living on my terms and in a place that is amazing, and he is selling insurance.
Life is all about adapting to changes, and an overall goal is good, but shit comes at you quickly and you either learn to deal with it or have a heart attack at 30.
Outlive your enemies is as simple as that. You will encounter many villainous people who may or may not have influence over your life at some point, the intention of the quoted saying is that you “win” over those dickheads by living as good a life as you can.
Thank you! A life well-lived is the best revenge! haha… I like that!
Thank you very much for the explanation :) It helped!
Once when I was suicidal I got a lot of benefit from reading Hamlet’s soliloquy from Act 3, Scene 1:
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.Thank you very much for that beautiful poem! starred it!
