If we’re ackshually things, lets cover the references to the lake of fire in the bible.
In revelations 19:20, there is the beast and the false prophet being tossed into the lake of fire.
In revelations 20:9, a bunch of people are explicitly consumed by fire from heaven. Consumed, not burned forever.
Then in revelations 20:10, the devil is added to the lake of fire with the beast and false prophet, and those three burn forever. But not the common folk.
Lastly, in revelations 20:13-15, hades and death give up their dead, and people are judged. Bad people are tossed into the lake of fire, explicitly labeled as a second death, but not mentioned as being eternal torment.
So in conclusion, the devil himself is spending eternity burning in the lake of “fire” (not lava or magma, nor is it underground, this is the apocalypse, this is happening on the surface of the planet that is being bombarded with heavenly shit), he’s not doing any torturing there. He is also not the one sending people there, and sinners don’t burn forever, they die when cast into the fire.
Not that I’m gonna claim the Bible is consistent, bu5 Ecc 9:5 basically say the dead are aware of nothing. People who believe often argue this one is a metaphor instead of the ones about Eternal punishment.
I grew up JW myself, but they believe dead is dead, and don’t believe in eternal torment. They do still believe in heaven and in eternal life, to come at a different time, so it’s not like they don’t believe the fantasy stuff as well, they just agree with no eternal torment.
The way a lot of it works out in the bible, is that when you die right now. you die. There is no afterlife, you’re in the grave. thats it. but then during the end times mentioned in 20:13-15, ALL the dead people are resurrected. And then the good ones get to stay alive and the bad ones go back to being dead. Thus a second death. So there is no “afterlife” then either… you are either eternally alive after armageddon, or eternally dead.
Being dead is basically just being non-existant. Fully unaware of anything. Which if you are to believe the bible, that means you’re cut off from god entirely, who despite having just murdered basically everyone, is supposedly pure love and joy. So the end result is living in eternal bliss that is so great that you can’t even fathom, or being cut off from that and never even having a possibility of anything. FOMO of god is the ultimate punishment.
I’m not even a religious person and the existential dread of “if it’s truly nothingness after I die, i won’t even have a way to experience the nothingness, everything will just stop” is enough to keep me awake some nights. So I can see how eternal nothingness was enough for the original authors to be considered horrifying consequence for not being religious enough, without having to resort to eternal physical torture.
Hades meaning “the underworld” and not referring to the greek mythology. I believe also referred to as Sheol. It refers to just “the common grave of man” and not specifically “hell” as often depicted.
Basically, “everyone comes back from the dead.” A lot of this section has flowery prose for over describing everything. “Graves and death give up their dead” is basically just “the dead come back to live so they can be judged” (which just further illustrates that nothing happens when you are dead, because you have to be resurrected just to be judged)
If we’re ackshually things, lets cover the references to the lake of fire in the bible.
In revelations 19:20, there is the beast and the false prophet being tossed into the lake of fire.
In revelations 20:9, a bunch of people are explicitly consumed by fire from heaven. Consumed, not burned forever.
Then in revelations 20:10, the devil is added to the lake of fire with the beast and false prophet, and those three burn forever. But not the common folk.
Lastly, in revelations 20:13-15, hades and death give up their dead, and people are judged. Bad people are tossed into the lake of fire, explicitly labeled as a second death, but not mentioned as being eternal torment.
So in conclusion, the devil himself is spending eternity burning in the lake of “fire” (not lava or magma, nor is it underground, this is the apocalypse, this is happening on the surface of the planet that is being bombarded with heavenly shit), he’s not doing any torturing there. He is also not the one sending people there, and sinners don’t burn forever, they die when cast into the fire.
“What about second death?”
“You’ve already had it”
" I don’t think he knows about second death"
What? How about eternitsies?
Outs of sheer curiosity where do they go after that particular death? Oblivion?
Not that I’m gonna claim the Bible is consistent, bu5 Ecc 9:5 basically say the dead are aware of nothing. People who believe often argue this one is a metaphor instead of the ones about Eternal punishment.
I grew up JW myself, but they believe dead is dead, and don’t believe in eternal torment. They do still believe in heaven and in eternal life, to come at a different time, so it’s not like they don’t believe the fantasy stuff as well, they just agree with no eternal torment.
This “second death” thing sounds like Oblivion/Void
But maybe there is an hidden gospel about new game +
The way a lot of it works out in the bible, is that when you die right now. you die. There is no afterlife, you’re in the grave. thats it. but then during the end times mentioned in 20:13-15, ALL the dead people are resurrected. And then the good ones get to stay alive and the bad ones go back to being dead. Thus a second death. So there is no “afterlife” then either… you are either eternally alive after armageddon, or eternally dead.
Being dead is basically just being non-existant. Fully unaware of anything. Which if you are to believe the bible, that means you’re cut off from god entirely, who despite having just murdered basically everyone, is supposedly pure love and joy. So the end result is living in eternal bliss that is so great that you can’t even fathom, or being cut off from that and never even having a possibility of anything. FOMO of god is the ultimate punishment.
I’m not even a religious person and the existential dread of “if it’s truly nothingness after I die, i won’t even have a way to experience the nothingness, everything will just stop” is enough to keep me awake some nights. So I can see how eternal nothingness was enough for the original authors to be considered horrifying consequence for not being religious enough, without having to resort to eternal physical torture.
Yes, Oblivion.
Consumed is a very vague word, you could certainly burn forever after being “consumed”
Yes, this exactly. I share this information often, and hardly any Christians have ever even read the book and thought about it themselves
Wait, Hades, specially part of Greek mythology, is part of Christianity too? And death?
Hades meaning “the underworld” and not referring to the greek mythology. I believe also referred to as Sheol. It refers to just “the common grave of man” and not specifically “hell” as often depicted.
Basically, “everyone comes back from the dead.” A lot of this section has flowery prose for over describing everything. “Graves and death give up their dead” is basically just “the dead come back to live so they can be judged” (which just further illustrates that nothing happens when you are dead, because you have to be resurrected just to be judged)
Ah I see, many thanks!